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BryceTalk Material World
August 3, 1999
Part 4 of 4
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BryceTalk (Tues) Materials World, August 3, 01999
Part 4

SChandler: Would this be a good time to answer my question about "reading" texture or materials squares to understand how position in the square maps on to position in the world or object?

Meta AuntiAlias: aah, thanks, Schbeurd

yes, SChandler.. thanks for bringing it up

I dont' understand what you mean by reading texture squares...

do you mean the three windows in Texture source? i.e., which square is which? or do you mean something else?

SChandler: OK, when you're in the materials lab, you can see the textures. They appear in a square.

Meta AuntiAlias: okay...

I think I follow. hang on while I go back to Mat Lab

SChandler: Perhaps I should clarify, when you're in either the materials lab or the DTE

Meta AuntiAlias: okay...

for this cylinder that has Check blue

texture source C...

let's take that as an example

Meta AuntiAlias: there are three preview windows, one is blue/white, one is black/white and third is gray. Is that hwat you're referring to by "squares" .....those three squares?

SChandler: I've notice that scenes with snow appear white in the upper left hand corner of the squares. But I don't understand how position in the squares more generally maps into object or world position

Meta AuntiAlias: aaah!

2d space interpretations. Okay. got it.

SChandler: Sure

Meta AuntiAlias: not anythign at all to do with what I was just talking about

SChandler: Yes

Meta AuntiAlias: okay....

SChandler: I agree that this is a new subject.

Meta AuntiAlias: I'm gonna leave the Mat lab, go back and select terrain with the whole mountain (checkerboard) variation and come back here for that

yes, and you see the little triangular patch in upper left corner of Hills 29, eh?

yes...

it's a question of "how-to-interpret-3D-worldspace-attributes-when-they are-all-together-on-a-2d square"

It goes like this:

for altitude: low altitude is at bottom and high alitutde is at top.

So if you look at the center (value/alpha) previews for both HIlls 29 and GrayGalets 29

you see they are mostly white, with a little teeny bit of dark at the bottom

altitude is at work here. something is different lower than is higher

slope is different....

hmmm... let's see if I can do this easily...

SChandler: I'm following you so far, I think

SChandler: Which is Basic Altitude 29?

Meta AuntiAlias: well, you have two clues there...

how it looks and its name...

Meta AuntiAlias: go ahead, take a crack at it.. : )

SChandler: I think I need more hints

Gigabyte: hehe

Meta AuntiAlias: basically, it's altitude

Schbeurd: Got to go. Thanks Aunti.

Meta AuntiAlias: okay... switch C to... Basic: water puddles.

It's tan and white

WaterPuddles

Meta AuntiAlias: see how the white part is on the left edge ,and the tan is most everything else?

that is slope at work...

SChandler: done

yes

Meta AuntiAlias: left edge is flat...

other part is upright.....

so.. knowing that, in a basic white and tan way, look at the color map for Hills 29

SChandler: Lost you. What do you mean left edge is flat

Meta AuntiAlias: this is a texture that has slope operating

what you see along left edge is what corresponds to flat areas in your scene

what you see on right side is what you see on upright areas in your scene

Mellifluous: i get it the tan mapsthe flat areas and the white maps the verticle areas

SChandler: Is there some way to tell by looking at the square whether it has slope operating, altitude operating, both or neither?

Meta AuntiAlias: opposite

Mellifluous: whoops

Meta AuntiAlias: white maps the flat areas, tan maps the upright areas

Mellifluous: i meant that

Meta AuntiAlias: : )

so... look now at the color preview for HIlls29

(which is a pretty compex texture, actually)

3d~?~elf: very bumpy mat!

Meta AuntiAlias: notice that there is, on the left.. greenish

and on the right it's brown and streaked

If you take a moment and change your markers so that... diffuse and ambient color are only on A....

and change the preview to a cube...

it's all so clear

the upright areas are the browny-dirt cliffy areas

SChandler: I think I may have it. We say that for each altitude (height on square), the color as a function of slope is read from left to right. Thus, a position in the bottom left of a square represents low altitude and low slope

Meta AuntiAlias: flat areas are green

SChandler: Similarly a position in the top right of a square represents high altitude and high slope? Do I have it?

Meta AuntiAlias: yes< SChandler...

3d~?~elf: did we lose the other room?

Meta AuntiAlias: therefore the snowy thing in upper left corner is high altitude flat slope

or snow on flat areas at high altitudes

(the color, in the case of HIlls 29 is a function of the color mapping mode)

which is, amazingly enough, Altitude (look in DTE for component 1)

Gigabyte: I think I get it:)

Meta AuntiAlias: on color...

SChandler, you ahve it exactly! :D

there is also orientation, not used as much as slope.. but it's the same kinda thing

also....

for any of those color previews

in the Mat Lab.. you can do the following to get a dynamic preview of them....

SChandler: Yay! But just to check my understanding, though, how do we deal with noises that have an orientation filter. Ah, I see you were thinking along the same lines.

Meta AuntiAlias: shift click on the texture name. That gets you to the Texture Library.

under the preview is a pop up menu

you may choose box, or sphere preview

to see the same texture applied to box or spehre

so.. you can see finer detail in slope there...

what's flat, what's upright, and so forth

SChandler: OK

CBXTX: :^)

Meta AuntiAlias: orientation appears opposite way as slope.. I took source C and changed it to Basic Altitude

and went to DTE to take a peek

bascially, took component 1, brought up the filter for it, and changed it from Altitude to Orientation and Slope just to compare

here I think you got something that is empirical...

there's no way to tell, just by looking at the color on a flat object, whether something is being applied as flat/upright or orientation east/west

it's just that, in my experience, Slope is used tons more in Bryce than Orientation, so chances are, you're looking at slope information and not orientation

have I put you all to sleep.. or are you all trying it out yourselves? :D

Mellifluous: working...

SChandler: So, to test my understanding, we'd be hard pressed to have a texture in Bryce that depended on slope, orientation AND altitude because that would require 3 dimensions and our picture squares are two dimensional. But, the meaning of the two dimensions can

Gigabyte: <--sleeping

CBXTX: O¿O

SChandler: change, i.e. sometimes left to right can be slope and other times it can be orientation.

Gigabyte: went to bed to late

Meta AuntiAlias: yes on conclusion. when it comes to whetehr or not you can have slope/orientation/altitude.. I think that's just begging to be tried! :D

Mellifluous: sleep is for ppl who don't have bryce ; )

3d~?~elf: or girlfriends

Gigabyte: lol

Meta AuntiAlias: <--sloping

Gigabyte: sloping?

Meta AuntiAlias: Schandler, I think you got the gist of it all down pretty well...

versus sleeping, Giga! ; )

SChandler: Thanks so much Aunti.

Meta AuntiAlias: ::::looking over list of things for Materials::::

SChandler: I'm afraid my day job beckons.

Meta AuntiAlias: we didnt' get to volumes (a whole nother topic)

Meta AuntiAlias: or to light maps and materials...

Gigabyte: volumes...that would take a while

Meta AuntiAlias: maybe can do lights really fast, but it IS gettin' time to wind up

Gigabyte: I have no understanding of volume

Mellifluous: really fast then

either or...

3d~?~elf: awww, save it for the next time!

Meta AuntiAlias: yeah.. I'm trying something out to see if there's a way to say it easily and quickly

Meta AuntiAlias: okay. when you create alight

and assigna gel

waht you are doing is assigning the object's diffuse color

actually, diffuse and ambient color

I just made a square spotlight and assigned Abalone (from psychedelic or one of those categories)

you can, in Mat lab, change the mapping

(is currently cylindrical.. what happens if I change to objects space? or spherical?)

Mellifluous: cool stuff;.)

Gigabyte: ?

Meta AuntiAlias: so... that's about the best to do..

Mellifluous: got it

Meta AuntiAlias: and even tho this preset was assigned to diffuse and ambient color, it's only DIFFUSE colro that works

cause the light *throws* diffuse color.. i.e., light is what causes diffusion to be a part of an object and thereofre it's sorta logical that a light's color would be diffuse color

none of the other things make a difference. sliders. nope. nuthin..

Giga... what's your question?

Gigabyte: If there are different textures in diffuse and ambient, will both be output in the light?

Meta AuntiAlias: nope. I invite you to do a little experimenting yoruself. I just did that just now to double check

it's either diffuse color uniform (no texture soruce) or texture source diffuse color

: )

okay!

wrap up time!

Gigabyte: k

Meta AuntiAlias: :D

next week is going to be the lateral-thinking-Bryce department

Heather: Thanks Aunti

Meta AuntiAlias: think out side the box

Mellifluous: Excellent

Meta AuntiAlias: ways to jar your head into new realizations in Bryce

Gigabyte: now...this room will be another lobby for a few more hours

Mellifluous: thanx aunti

Meta AuntiAlias: I don't have any secrets up my sleeve for this...

please...

bring your own discoveries...

Gigabyte: :)

cya all later

Meta AuntiAlias: I hope we jog one another's noggins this way... and therefore think more creatively!

Betty: thanks Susan

Mellifluous: yea indeed

3d~?~elf: we bryce, therefore we think?

Meta AuntiAlias: or something like that! :D

Betty: <g>

>>>> Next week (Tues): Brycing Outside of the Box

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