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BryceTalk Skies
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BryceTalk Skies, July 22, 1999Dr. Mojo: Hokay, I'm here now! Clay: John Spirko! how are ya? MOJO! camel: MOJO!! Wolfie: stif: I got my random image thing to work! every time you visit my site, you see a different image on the menu from my gallery. Sky Pilot: Happenin'? Yojimbo: Howdy to all those that just entered Meta AuntiAlias: Great! We're all here! : ) stiffkat: where's martzahn? Meta AuntiAlias: I just sounded the official word in the lobby... stiffkat: whoops, sorry aunti Sky Pilot: Lisa? Reflash: Real World Bryce 4?? daRAT: ta DA! John_Spirko: Hi Clay! doing good thanks Meta AuntiAlias: Welcome to Sky Night!!! Tonight we're talking about Skies in Bryce. John Martzahn (Sky Pilot), Ken Musgrave (Dr. Mojo) are our guests for tonight. Sonata: I made it with my new 21 inch monitor stiffkat: yeah John :) Meta AuntiAlias: John will be starting off. We will have Q & A, so please hold your questions.. or if you have questions, please type ? and I'll put you in the queue... so... without further ado or typing or all that, Sky Pilot, you have da floor! :D lars: <yeah, clap clap> Sky Pilot: Auntie, how do I paste? Meta AuntiAlias: use the keyboard command Meta AuntiAlias: command-V or ctrl+V Sky Pilot: Hi Folks! My name is John Martzahn, a.k.a. Sky Pilot, BeyondVR@aol.com Please welcome Dr. Mojo & Auntialias, who are old friends of yours! Clay: CLAP CLAP! Yojimbo: hehe Wolfie: gurrr.... Sky Pilot: I would like to thank everyone for attending, and I hope we all come away a little more "enlightened."
camel: We will!!! Sky Pilot: I'm here because I know how confused I was by the myriad sky settings in Bryce ; ) The atmosphere is one of the most complex systems in nature. It is Bryce's job to mimic, through whatever means available, the subtle effects going on in the real sky. For an example, take "skylight." This is the light that illuminates everything not subject to direct sunlight. It comes mostly from the light that is scattered by the atmosphere and, on a clear day, has a bluish cast. Our brain compensates for this appearance, to some degree, but you will see it noticeably in photographs. Other components to skylight are light trasmitted & reflected by clouds, and just about anything else in the environment that reflects light. Closer to Earth, this light is further softened & colored by haze, pollution, dust, and the occasional Goodyear blimp. Rosy: lol Meta AuntiAlias: : ) Clay: LOL Sky Pilot: To mimic this phenomenon, Bryce uses sun & sun glow colors, haze, cloud color, and most importantly shadow color (ambient setting in Sky Lab) and sky dome color. Sky Pilot: These last two settings affect the appearance of "skylit" objects the most; shadow color globally, and sky dome color predominantly from above. I point this out to stress that no one color setting can be thought of as isolated. Most affect many others. Sky Pilot: This is the beauty of Bryce, and what makes it seem overly complex. I've put together a little tutorial on the use of the Sky Palette, aimed at those who have not yet delved into it. It is intended to make the the process a little less daunting, and I hope some of you find it helpful. I'll give you the URL in a little while. First, I'd like to thank those who responded with ideas and questions on this topic. For those of you who expressed concerns about clouds, I know that Ken (Dr. Mojo) has some exciting news on that front. Whether he wants to get into that now, or save it for the end, I'm not sure. Ken?
Calyxa: he's sleepin' Meta AuntiAlias: :::::pokes sleeping Ken::::: ; ) Calyxa: heh Clay: tooting a horn! Meta AuntiAlias: guess that'll have to wait for a bit : ) Rosy: KEN!!! Yojimbo: hehe Dr. Mojo: I'm trying to ftp stuff where y'all can see it... lars: I just recieved a telepathic message form ken that he wants to wait. Dr. Mojo: Take it away for now! Sky Pilot: Auntie, that link was a B4 file? 3d~?~elf: yep Dr. Mojo: I'll save mine for the end... Meta AuntiAlias: which link is that, Sky? I think you can just continue as you were..... : ) Sky Pilot: The link is: http://members.aol.com/beyondvr/skytut1.html Sky Pilot: I wasn't planning on going through it, but we can discuss it if you want. stiffkat: ? Sky Pilot: Pretty simple stuff Clay: :-) they're all at the site now LOL Sky Pilot: To keep you from getting lost Dr. Mojo: Hey, if you're done with your prepared spiel Sky Pilot, I can deliver mine. I just wanted to get some images up first. Dang computer ain't cooperatin' though. Wolfie: maybe the newbees would like to get the basics before a deeper discussion. Sky Pilot: Tryin' to stall for you Rosy: LOL Sky Pilot: Ready? Go ahead Doc Dr. Mojo: Why don't y'all talk for a bit; I'll get back with you presently. Sky Pilot: ok Meta AuntiAlias: or.. since we're at a small who's goin' next impasse... Meta AuntiAlias: shall we take stiffkat's question? Sky Pilot: Stiffcat? Go stiffkat: John, ambient affects color closer to ground and sky dome is color from above? daRAT: gotta scoot :\ I am beat, this gonna be posted at a later date on the meta site? Clay: yes Sky Pilot: Ambient is global, has no direction Meta AuntiAlias: yes! it will be posted.. tomorrow stiffkat: ah, so ambient is the reflected light? daRAT: Aunti: thankee :P Sky Pilot: Not that easy Sky Pilot: Main way Bryce has to light shadows, etc. Meta AuntiAlias: not so much reflected as the color of light everywhere.... Meta AuntiAlias: yes, which is what you tend to especially notice where something casts shadows... Wolfie: Would you consider the "ambiant" color as what one would consider the COLOR of the light the sun radiates? Sky Pilot: Kind of an overall glow Sky Pilot: No, more like the fill light from the sky lars: Are you saying that the ambient color modifies the color of the sun. Meta AuntiAlias: Wolfie, you can assign the sun a color, so no.. and that is a separate color Sky Pilot: Often is blue in daylight stiffkat: I think I get it, the perception of atmosphere color in a way |
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Meta AuntiAlias: Last I counted, there are some 10-12 possible colors to play with in the sky stiffkat: but sun and sky dome color will affect it Sky Pilot: One of the tools you can use to do that lars: so the ambiant color is like the color of your sky's 'canvas' before you start interacting with it on the other settings. Sky Pilot: Sky dome color too The whole scene lars: sky dome is the same as the ambient setting in the sky lab right. Meta AuntiAlias: no... Sky Pilot: No Meta AuntiAlias: um... Wolfie: so it's the color of the air you look through? stiffkat: nope Sky Pilot: Same as shadow color Meta AuntiAlias: it seems like we're playign 20 questions with trying to figure out what ambient color is... : ) lars: ambient is the same as shadow? Meta AuntiAlias: which means one thing: telling all these colors apart is kinda difficult! stiffkat: so if I have dense shadow on rocks and want to tweak that shadow color playing with ambient would be one way to achieve that? lars: you betcha! Wolfie: no kiddin Sky Pilot: Shadow in palette Ambient in Sky Lab lars: Cool! dawn: wolfie--turn on your icq for a sec... lars: That helps me a lot! Meta AuntiAlias: Actually, Sky Pilot.. if I may slightly correct something you're saying... Sky Pilot: sure Meta AuntiAlias: Ambient Color is the color of the color swatch that is just below the Shadow setting in the main Sky n Fog palette Sky Pilot: right Meta AuntiAlias: so it's called, technically, Ambient Color both out on the main palette and in the Sky Lab Sky Pilot: ok suits me Meta AuntiAlias: (on Palette, is 2nd from left)... not to quibble, but to clarify :D stiffkat: I see it Sky Pilot: is confusing Wolfie: ok...I thought that was the SHADOW's ambiant color stiffkat: a bit but still clearer then I was on it. :) lars: that's what I got originally. Cool. Meta AuntiAlias: so... SKy Pilot, go ahead and continue... if there are additional quesitons, "sogn up" with that ever-friendly "?" er "sign up" Rosy: ? Sky Pilot: Go ahead Rosy: I had a cloud question lars: ? Dr. Mojo: Fire away! (Ftp is in progress...) Rosy: On certain preset skies, such as Open Window...the clouds look weird! Like squares...unnatural anything to do about that? Sky Pilot: That probably uses all 3 components in DTE Some weird stuff going on in there Rosy: I'll say! Dr. Mojo: I saw that the day before we shipped B4. I went to Brian and Ales and they said "no one's ever reported THIS before!" So it's a known bug; it'll get fixed (I hope) in B5. Sky Pilot: That 3rd one is a duzzie! Rosy: I see! Meta AuntiAlias: where is that sky preset, Rosy? (I'm looking through the collection here; don't see it) Dr. Mojo: It's a nasty one, if it's the one I saw. Big, jagged artifacts in the clouds. With square edges... Rosy: I got it from the CD Sky Pilot: Lise Lebel did some of those on B4 CD Content Meta AuntiAlias: aaah, okay... Wolfie: on the content CD? Rosy: yeah Lise's Sky Collection Dr. Mojo: Is that what you saw, Rosie? Sky Pilot: yeah Rosy: yes! Reflash: instead of B5 , how about a patch for B4 Dr. Mojo: Okay. I'm rewriting the entire DTE from scratch, so it SHOULD go away in B5...! Sky Pilot: Pretty cool, but not too practical for everyday use Meta AuntiAlias: Well, if Lise is around you can ask her.. for all we know, the square clouds were the feature behind the preset! ; ) (of course, I haven't seen the preset) Rosy: LOL thanks, go ahead lars: ? Dr. Mojo: It's too obscure and hard to reproduce to fix in the B4 patch. I can't reproduce it now... Meta AuntiAlias: Lars, go ahead with your question! lars: SkyPilot, I was just doing you're online tutorial and I'm not noticing a difference when I move the fog up and down. The preview pane is not showing me a wireframe 'ground' like your demo. Is that a Windows thing (i'm on a mac). Sky Pilot: Wireframe? Meta AuntiAlias: that gridded ground, you mean? lars: Looks like some sort of grid on the grouund. yeah. Nevermind I'll just make one. Wolfie: the cheker board floor is a material he applied to the ground plane lars: I have always struggled with placing the fog. Clay: :-) Sky Pilot: Oh! Just a visual aid Wolfie: Looks like the one from "Wild and Fun" presets Sky Pilot: You got it What does he win? Clay: ding ding ding! Dr. Mojo: Side comment: Rosy, if you can reproduce that bug, would you pls. mail it to me at musgrave@metcreations.com? Meta AuntiAlias: a title: the Duke of URL! stiffkat: sky presets! LOL Rosy: Ok Mojo Dr. Mojo: Thanks! lars: third one in, Right on the money Wolfie. Sky Pilot: Who's next? Meta AuntiAlias: okay....back to Sky Pilot.. no other questions that I can see... Meta AuntiAlias: but I have an idea Rosy: ? Sky Pilot: OK Here is a fill technique I've used a couple of times. http://members.aol.com/beyondvr/fill.html Meta AuntiAlias: and that is this-- the earlier 20-questions re: "ambient color does what and this does sunlight does that color mean huh?" indicates that there are some questions out there... Sky Pilot: I haven't had time to investigate it further, but I use a spotlight, set to Disable Cast Shadows, shining THROUGH a primitive object. Creates a nice, soft fill. A case of using a Bryce quirk to one's advantage. I think you'll agree the "After" image look Sky Pilot: looks more like a sun & sky lit scene.
Why do think it does that, Ken? lars: Wow. that's a nice trick. Wolfie: nice awacs Sky Pilot: Get him in here yet Clay: tooting horn again
>>>> Next up: "One thing I'd like to know about Bryce Skies is..." |
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