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BryceTalk Bi-i-i-ig Bryce Scenes
July 8, 1999
Part 3 of 3
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BryceTalk Bi-i-i-i-ig Bryce Scenes, July 8, 1999
part 3

AuntiAlias: Hilofoz, go for it

Hilofoz: Which in a merged file overrides which as far as the atmospherics are concerned?

AuntiAlias: host file is host file with atmosphere...

Hilofoz: IC

AuntiAlias: I coined terms host file and guest file in Bryce book to give the idea of who does what with merged scenes

family names and environment are the host scene file

so if guest scene has families all named one way, those names go away and the host file's family names prevail

gdmsynth: When using a host file, does the camera have to be in the same place or just the objects?

AuntiAlias: camera of guest file doesn't come in (of course)... objects are what are transferred.. they come into host file in exact same location where they were in their own file

gdmsynth: I see. Thanks.

AuntiAlias: oh, one last clarification for host file/guest file.

host file is the one you are in when you select "File > Merge"... i.e., you invite the guest to come into the current scene

Tips? type ! Questions? Type ?

Rivak: ?

AuntiAlias: Rivak, go for it!

Rivak: say you've got a lot of things in solo mode

and you want to add things to the solo mode invisible-ness

Rivak: can you do that without geting out of solo mode?

AuntiAlias: what do you mean by "invisible-ness" .?

you mean you are in solo mode and you want to pull more items from main scene INTO solo mode?

Rivak: yes

Hilofoz: !

Rivak: without making everything come back into the sene

scene

AuntiAlias: hmmm... I remember in Bryce 2 there was an odd thing where you'd do select by object and use the option key, and all those objects of that type would come into solo mode. But I don't think that made it into Bryce 2 Windows and following versions. It was re

really obscure

that's where you select all in Solo mode, go back to main scne and shift-click to select the object to add to selection....

or... control-shift click to add to selection using the pop-up menu

done.

Hil!

Hilofoz: You have to be carefull with groupings in solo mode. This can cause problems I have found.

AuntiAlias: tell us more!

Rivak: hmm ok

gdmsynth: ?

AuntiAlias: Hil... are you gonna elaborate on the problems with grouping in solo mode?

Hilofoz: If you select objects which are part of a group, from what I remember, there will be problems with booleans in solo mode. I cant quite remember, but it was something to do with booleans.

AuntiAlias: or is your word of caution simply "be careful" aaah.. okay....

Hilofoz: It was a long time ago.

AuntiAlias: gdmsynth, go for it!

gdmsynth: Is there a limit to the number of groups that can be created? Is it limited to the visible group palette?

Hilofoz: Do you mean family palette?

gdmsynth: Yes

AuntiAlias: I don't know of a limit to the possible number of groups. Maybe that's a question to ask the engineers next week

oh, you can make many more than 25 groups!!

renderin': booleans do seem to geek out in solo mode,but it was in b2 or b3 i think.

gdmsynth: But some will share the same color coding won't they?

Hilofoz: It was in B3 I think

AuntiAlias: right.... you can have many more objects or groups that share same family color

oh.. you can name your groups, you know! : )

gdmsynth: So when you select the color you get many groups.

AuntiAlias: and select groups by using the pop-up menu just to the left of the selection arrows/solo mode button

Hilofoz: !

AuntiAlias: Hil.. go for it!

gdmsynth: Yes, I'm going by names but haven't gone past the 25 colors

Hilofoz: If you dup. an object, it will name it obj 1,2,3. very useful

AuntiAlias: yes, good for groups of constructed objects that you are making more of: conglomeration 1, 2, 3

so...of all these great tips you have shared, which one was the most exciting breakthrough discovery for you in your work with large scenes (i.e., made all the difference in the world)?

Hilofoz: ?

Clay: steve's statement about the beer:-) LOL!!

AuntiAlias: hil....

Clay: (just kiddin)

Hilofoz: You explained that grouping was good as far as AAliasing was concerned, in your book.

AuntiAlias: aaaah, but that's old news, actually....

AuntiAlias: worked as much for Bryce 1, Bryce 2 Mac...

gdmsynth: ?

AuntiAlias: there's a new render algorithm for optimization that has been in Bryce from Bryce 2 Windows and forward....

Clay: but it still thinks of it a sone object and not many right Susan?

AuntiAlias: automatically subdivides the scene into smaller spaces to do the same optimization procedure that grouping used to do in the old way

Clay: ah

renderin': so grouping doesnt matter any more?

AuntiAlias: for rendering? no.....

grouping matters for all sortsa other reasons... : )

gdmsynth... go for it

gdmsynth: Is it better to name groups rather than just giving them colors? Isn't it easy to lose the color but not the name?

renderin': well yeah but i meant for rendering...:)

Hilofoz: ?

AuntiAlias: That's a personal preference, I think... anyone have any opinions one way or the other for gdmsynth's quetsion?

...tho you can have 1 unique group name and not necessarily one unique group color (there may be overlap)

Clay: naming is a little easier sometimes on super complex scenes

AuntiAlias: Hil, go for it...

Hilofoz: I notice with the camera scaling that it alters the FOV. Is it just an inverse matter. Why can not the camera be seen to be scaled?

gdmsynth: When you color code an object but later group it with another colored object don't you lose the first group?

AuntiAlias: the first group? or the first coloring?

gdmsynth: The color of the first group.

Clay: yeah just give it a new color

Clay: If I remember right

AuntiAlias: well, grouping a set of objects does not change the wireframe color of all the individuals in that group.

if you select the group and assign th egroup a new color, then all the members are assigned the new color (scine they are all selected)

gdmsynth: So can you have a group of separate colored objects?

AuntiAlias: but of course! :D

gdmsynth: I see.

AuntiAlias: Any other tips? Any horror stories or great triumphs you 've had with large scenes?

Hilofoz: ?

AuntiAlias: Hil, go for it!

Hilofoz: Question concerning physically large terrains

How does sisze affect atmospherics, lie hight of terrain and scaling

Optimal scaling of terrains

Clay: !

Hilofoz: Also, relation of scaling camera as opposed to scaling terrains

AuntiAlias: Clay, is your comment in response to Hil?

Clay: no

a horror story

AuntiAlias: aaah.... okay... let's hear about it in a moment...

the larger your terrain, the more you see things like haze, etc.

AuntiAlias: best I can say in response to the question.. don't know if that helps...

gdmsynth: As you scale the camera you won't get the same atmospheric effects from haze.

Hilofoz: Thanks, I must test this

AuntiAlias: Clay.... tell us, tell us!

Clay: I had the 221 booleans scene almost finished, and selected all and accidently hit ungroup:-( needless to say, clay lost a lot of booleans and spent a few days sorting it all out...........

AuntiAlias: (Also... Anyone have any images of scene files you've done with the large file size? post URL!)

Clay: definently a beginners mistake

needless to say I trashed the project

no color codes or group names

so there ya are, COLOR CODE AND NAME THEM PUPPIES!

Epsilon 3: http://members.tripod.com/~KuzeyAtici/melbou.jpg

gdmsynth: Nice city!

AuntiAlias: looks like lotsa stuff in there, Epsilon!!

:D

Epsilon 3: it's only 28MB but has 5173 objects & 544588 Polygons

gdmsynth: Are you using pict textures on the buildings?

Epsilon 3: No all Bryce textures But I have started too

http://members.tripod.com/~KuzeyAtici/Flinders1.jpg

gdmsynth: How did you get the building with vertical textured lines only part way up?

Clay: http://www.phase2.net/claygraphics/terraformer.html

Epsilon 3: which one?

Topaz: so how big are all these files?? :)

AuntiAlias: (west coast sky/sunset cloud alert! pretty!)

Clay: Damn that's a lot of objects Ep

renderin': lotsa multi rep-ed torus and thick atmosphere 8.3 million polys http://rampages.onramp.net/~renderin/ima/agua.JPG

gdmsynth: <Epsilon> Tall slightly right of center

Clay: WOW REN!

Topaz: i think i've had around 28 million polygons.. is that a lot? :)

Clay: heheh

lots!

desdanova: (Must be LA smog, Susan)

Topaz: clay.. what's your largest?

(file size)

Clay: 88 meg

AuntiAlias: (am in Carpinteria right now, Des)

gdmsynth: Clay you have a beautiful Rivensque style to your models. Are these part of a sequence for a large project?

Clay: yes:-) and thanks

Topaz: wow... ya beat me

Topaz: which one is it? (88 megs)

Clay: here's one

AuntiAlias: Topaz, how about the url to that one you did recently... : )

Clay: believe it or not on the center piece there are 8 cylinders

http://www.phase2.net/claygraphics/test_page.html

Topaz: ok :) http://topazdesigns.com/~klm/bryce/marisandra.htm (80 megs, 28 million polys, i think)

AuntiAlias: Clay, I like the look of brick interior torus on it! :D

Clay: thanks:-)

go Kelly!

Topaz: hehe

gdmsynth: Render'n Ooh I like that. I'd like to see some underwater "water" though. Maybe some atmospheric haze?

Clay: already fixed it GD

LOL!!

oops wrong one sorry:-(

AuntiAlias: Topaz, it's great....you're getting over-the-shoulder kudos by friend lookin' at the monitor! :D

Topaz: thanks :)

Hilofoz: A very functional http://www.geko.com.au/~hilary/Backyd.jpg

Clay: (kelly paints her water) LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!

J/K

renderin': that is really sweet topaz!

Topaz: <Topaz slaps Clay with sushi>

thanks, renderin :)

Clay: thwap, (hitting the floor)

I smell likka feesh!

Topaz: hehe

renderin': painted water is legal!

AuntiAlias: okay.... one last biiig file question....

Topaz: brings back memories of #kptbryce...

AuntiAlias: how about biiiig files and animation?

AuntiAlias: any tips? questions? war stories?

Hilofoz: Kuzy, thats Victoria Station!!

Clay: don't ungroup things unless you're sure!

Hilofoz: With a victram

Topaz: the only thing i've animated is a sunset... doh

Clay: (hi Susan's Friend)

Epsilon 3: close :o)

hammel1149: Call me silly, but I have not been able to find the Add Category button needed to create new preset categories.

Clay: http://www.phase2.net/claygraphics/test_page_4.html

here's an anime' in the works still

AuntiAlias: (hammel, it's not there... one of those.. er... discrepancies between the manual and the software)

Clay: the motion is still screwy so put that aside:-)

AuntiAlias: (Clay, my friend says hi)

gdmsynth: A

Clay: :-)

AuntiAlias: gdm, go ahead!

Clay: quit your cussin:-)

CBXTX: So, Susan, how does one make a new catagory then?

hammel1149: Is there =any= way to create new present categories.

gdmsynth: Like Susan's earlier tip but I use two crossed paths and a null track ball to smoothly move around the camera and objects. Works well for all axis.

Ringo: true.

Steve Lareau: I wish Meta would mail out stickers to stick over the misprints in the manual that says "Never mind....

Epsilon 3: Have to wait for a patch or Bryce5 for that

Clay: here's another anime' quicky: http://www.phase2.net/claygraphics/test_page_5.html

AuntiAlias: CBX.... "User" is it...

Clay: LOL STEVE!

Topaz: well, i'm off to sleep.. gotta get up early for class tomorrow... night!

AuntiAlias: i.e., the category...

CBXTX: IC, tnx.

Clay: cya Kell

Ringo: got anymore Clay?

Steve Lareau: Nite water painter! ;D

gdmsynth: The first path is like a RR track. The second path I link to the first for L/R motion and then I link the null ball to the paths. The objects are linked freely to this.

Ringo: nite Cali

Clay: not posted yet:-(

Ringo: Kelli

Steve Lareau: Kelly

Hilofoz: Night Kel

Ringo: shame, shame...Clay.

gdmsynth: Suggested to my by Rodney L'Ongnion who graciously gave me the idea.

Clay: heheh

Topaz: cya!

AuntiAlias: Any other tips for or questions about large files? Cause if not, I'll save the log here and we can dispense with the semi-loose protocol and you can all swap urls and compliments and stuff! : )

hammel1149: I dumped on Bryce 2.0 in a review because of the new preset category problem and received email from some big honcho saying it was a top priority for the next update. Is MetaCreations taking customer relations lessons from Microsoft, or what?

AuntiAlias: Next week: Bryce engineer Q & A... Tuesday chat: Bryce Novice Q & A

Clay: nope none here at the moment:-(

JeffP: ...

Steve Lareau: Hammel- but ya ended up getting B4.. it worked!

AuntiAlias: hammel, is that a trick question? ; ) I haven't seen any one from Microsoft in the office doling out advice! ===;o

Ringo: So next week we get to jump on the engineerins regarding the Poser4 to Bryce4 plugin.

Clay: heheh

hammel1149: Steve -- Only up to a point. Databases are no longer rocket science.

Clay: (practicing pouncing)

Ringo: hehehe

AuntiAlias: that's why we have regular BryceTalk events with the engineers, Ringo! :D

>>>> Next week: Q & A with Bryce Engineering Team

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