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BryceTalk Camera Discussion
June 29, 1999
Part 3 of 4
1 2 3 4

 

BryceTalk Camera Discussion, June 29, 1999
part 3

AuntiAlias: if you want to track something.....

make a sphere that is NOT the object

AuntiAlias: so you have the intended object athat is the center of attention.. let's call that a cube

AuntiAlias: you want to follow the motion of a cube... but don't track the cube

why?

because camera motion seems more natural when the cube is not SMACK DAB in the center of the field of view

so

create another object.. in this case, the sphere...

make that sphere invisible...

this is where the object attribute called "hidden" comes in handy

it shows in wireframe view, but it does not render

so...

you can make the camera move slightly ahead of or lag behind the cube by positioning the sphere slightly ahead of or lagging slightly behind the cube

got it?

:D

MtnCub: so you're actually TRACKING the HIDDEN object. right?

AuntiAlias: yes!

Rosy: cool

AuntiAlias: great secret!

so...

MtnCub: sweet.

AuntiAlias: if you go back and read the animation chat log

and you see Rodney talking about something called a "null object"

that's what he's referring to

null = hidden, unseen

MtnCub: keen :)

AuntiAlias: a not-object ; )

groovy, baby! yeah! :D

Rosy: a nobject!

KathG: LOL

AuntiAlias: gdm, tell us a little more about that camera jump at the end you were talking about

Journeyman: morph, a word in the brycetalk project room?

gdmsynth: Well I've tried to get a smooth slow end to a camera rotation but no matter how much I zoom in on the TimeMapping Window to create a smooth curve at the end there is still a little jump in the camera motion.

The downside of tracking an object in an animation is that you must also animate the object you are tracking.

AuntiAlias: so that's when camera is rotating all by its lonesome, and not tracking an object?

gdmsynth: Yes.

AuntiAlias: well.. that's the only thing you gotta animate!

; )

also you can do that in still scenes, too!

MtnCub: ~waves~

gdmsynth: Tracking an object seems to let you get smoother camera motion but at the price of slightly more complexity.

MtnCub: Aunti.. when will this log be up ?

AuntiAlias: have you all tried to put together that tracking object?

MtnCub: I have to go before I get to my question ;)

AuntiAlias: within a day or so..., Mtn Cub

MtnCub: Thank you :)

fargo: gotta go, bye and thnx

gdmsynth: ?

AuntiAlias: i.e., do you have Bryce up with a camera tracking a sphere?

(this is a question for everyone)

Rosy: yeah

JeffP: Yes.

gdmsynth: Rendering..

AuntiAlias: okay... for those of you who do have it....

look at your scene from camera view (shortcut- keypad1)

taht sphere is in the middle, yes?

select sphere and move it over a bit

Rosy: whole scene moves!

AuntiAlias: keep doing that.. you can move your camera rotation

I was working on a scene which shall shortly be revealed... ; ) <ed note: Check out the HTML Image Map Project >

KathG: yes

AuntiAlias: (look later this week on Bryce website under community/project area for HTML image map)

there's an interior of a room there

crowded with lots of objects

ground, extra terrain for tile on floor

terrains for walls

terrain for ceiling

hard to manipulate camera inside of that space while looking at scene from orth views

Rosy: I can imagine!

AuntiAlias: dead easy to do it using an object tracking sphere

I jsut move the sphere and my perspective changes.

Oh, I want to shift over to look more at *that thing* .. move null sphere over to *that thing* Voila!

and that scene was not meant to be animated at all!

(at 1-2 hour renders per 550 x 300 size scene, animation would be a bit much!!)

okay.... gdm.. your question?

gdmsynth: How do you move your camera around in a complex scene (large with lots of obstacles such as mountains in a canyon scene) where the camera and objects are both being animated?

Tracking a null object only lets you adjust rotation. You've have to move on the X,Y,Z planes too.

Since there are various different approaches, what procedure do you find the most useful when building both the scene and the camera path?

AuntiAlias: lotsa potential answers for that one!!

gdmsynth: But must be one "best" one.

For example I start with a dummy camera path.

AuntiAlias: :::hands on hips:::: Best one? You think that there is only ONE best answer for camera motion?

; )

gdmsynth: Then I refine it afterwards. What do others do?

AuntiAlias: well....

this gets into the third area of discussion

AuntiAlias: that was raised...

about animating camera on path....

gdmsynth: If you use the track ball in the beginning, then you got two things to refine. Do you start out this way?

AuntiAlias: as was mentioned at beginning: What < I > would like to know... about camera's.. is the best way to attach a camera to a PATH and send it on it's journey thru a site.

gdmsynth: Sorry I missed the beginning can you repeat?

AuntiAlias: mebbe we talk about larger area of how-to, and see if there are concepts to refine in order to address your situation, gdm....

I just did...

gdmsynth: OK...I'll hold my questions..


 

 

AuntiAlias: When it comes to animation of an object -- any object... in Bryce... there are two ways to move in space....

The first is trajectory

AuntiAlias: that's what you make automatically when you have autokey on, and you move time scrubber, then move object.. and bryce automagically interpolates between first and second position

AuntiAlias: that's the smooth gray line with blue points where keys are....

called a Trajectory...

I was looking at the Bryce manual, and it tends to call it a path...

however....

in the tutorial I wrote for the manual

AuntiAlias: (which starts on page 95, I believe)

I make a distinction between the trajectory and that other thing, which is called an object path

the idea here is this:

you can use keyframes to create an object's motion geometry in space

that is, its POSITION

AuntiAlias: it goes from point A to B to C to D...

AuntiAlias: and, depending on the need, you may have as many points in there as you need to define the shape of the trajectory

AuntiAlias: if there are curves, you need more "points" than you need for a straight line

so...

AuntiAlias: that's all well and good for establishing where the object (object, by the way, DOES include Camera) is in space over time

but

on the whole, the time element is not as smooth.....

so....

that's at the point where you convert the trajectory to an object path

Under Objects menu, "Create Object Path"

oops...

"Create Path"

Once you do that....

you have to go back and refine the time element all over again

First thing you do is to link the object to the path

so that it is constrained to the path

two ways of doing so

select object: and object icons appear... the diagonal one (like a chain link)

is the one that you drag from... TO the path...

because the path is small and thin, though...

sometimes it's not easy to "hit" it

(when you do HIT it, it'll turn blue)

so..

you use the other method.. the object attributes dialog box.

Second panel in dialog box is "Linking"

At the top, there's an area for Object Parent Name

with a pop-up menu.

so... you scroll in the pop-up menu for Path 1 (assuming that this is the only path you have in your scene)

and select Path 1

Once you have a path there, you got more options that appear in the dialog box.

(hang on a sec while I do this, so I can describe it accurately)

AuntiAlias: It says "constrain to path" and there's a numerical entry box and a set of arrows

now...

waht constrain means is this

it's the position along the path.. the path's beginning and the path's end.

One end is 0 and the other end is 100

AuntiAlias: so

to move the object along that path over time, you go to time 00:00:00.0

and then place the object at position 0

then move to other end of your timeline (however much that is)

and then move the object to position 100

oh..

and make sure to "add keyframe" at each of those times

so...

you object

whether camera.... or null sphere or other object

gdmsynth: ?

AuntiAlias: oops...

your object...

moves along a more complex geometry (the path) over two keyframes of time

time 0 ... time 1

for smooth movement....

AuntiAlias: you can have more than 1 object constrained to the same path

you can have both null object and visible object that way, for instance...

but moving at different speeds, for instance

and you can scale the path.. or move points on the path over time.... or move the entire path over time!

you can constrain one path to another path

and you can have camera move on yet another path, tracking a moving object on a parallel path.....

the idea here is that you are separating the geometry (where the object moves) from the time element

in order to create smooth movement over time

once you do that, you get a lot more control and power out of animating things

AuntiAlias: and working with the curves in the Advanced Motion Lab (AML) gets to making more sense

gdm, your question?

gdmsynth: Why does motion along a trajectory in a straight line from A-B run at a different speed than when the trajectory is converted to a path?

AuntiAlias: hmmm.. the same trajectory? first as trajectory, then as converted to path?

gdmsynth: Yes.

AuntiAlias: I don't know exactly.. I'd have to look at the case in question...

but I can think of ideas....

such as...

are you really at point 0 and at poitns 100 at the beginning and end?

gdmsynth: Seems to speed up and slow down at the beginning and ends on a trajectory.

AuntiAlias: are you talking about identical time span?

or..

gdmsynth: Yes, yes.

AuntiAlias: if you've done ease-in-ease-out curves, then, well, there you are!!

AuntiAlias: that's where the curves in AML do come in handy

DigiVI:

gdmsynth: No. Not with any ease in out. If you think not, I'll go back and check it later.

AuntiAlias: you'd have to have a straight digonal curve in AML for consistent speed

which, by the way, looks very computerish... ease in ease out looks more natural to the eye

okay...

gdmsynth: Yes no changes to the TimeMapping

AuntiAlias: then I don't know the answer to your question, gdmsynth....

 

>>>> Next up: Tension, Bias and Curve

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