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Tuesday BryceTalk Terrain Mania!
June 22, 1999
Part 2 of 5
1 2 3 4 5

 

Tuesday BryceTalk —Terrain Mania! June 22, 1999
part 2

i_claudius: ?

ccasady: yes claudious?

i_claudius: Clicking INSIDE?

ccasady: yes, the liitle preview itself

i_claudius: I didn't know. OK.

ccasady: click righ on it, "inside" it.

ccasady: yea, this is new to B4

a simple click there puts the current terrain in the swatch

i_claudius: But you can use the load button too, right?

ccasady: yes, also Load

AuntiAlias: ?

ccasady: it's anotheer way to get a picture in

Yes?

i_claudius: I just love the hidden features.

driven: hmmm

ccasady: susan?

AuntiAlias: Would you explain the significance of this new (different) way of working in B4?

ccasady: significance? it's easier.

driven: ok so where are we what r we talking about

AuntiAlias: driven, we have Chris Casady explaining a technique to us for the pictures tab in the terrain editor.

Calyxa: oh yeah, I'm liking this, Chris.

driven: ok tanx

ccasady: you need to get two unique terrains in each of the two left swatches.

Now you are ready to blend them.

Calyxa: it's a couple visible buffers

ccasady: This is done with the blue button named "Blend".

MetaKlaus: wow

;-)

ccasady: If you click and drag left and right you are adjusting the ballence between the two pictures blending them together.

Look carefully at the third image, on the right, and see (although very small!) the blening changing as you drag left and right.

i_claudius: Will wonders never cease?

ccasady: Here's a clever feature I just learned about recently:

Rosy: cool

ccasady: Once you have a blend you think looks good (but how can you really tell? because that flat previw is so small)

ccasady: You can preview the result in 3D before you Apply it.

Try this: Click inside that third window on the right and drag around up. dpown, left, right.

Rosy: oh my!

george: oho

Luie: nifty

i_claudius: wow

ccasady: Yiou see the 3D preview updates with the blend to show you the result in 3D!

Rosy: and rotates!

ccasady: rememebr, this is *before* you apply the effect

i_claudius: right

ccasady: yes, you can tumble you terrain and look at it, see the result of the blend.

driven: yeah

Calyxa: very cool.

MetaKlaus: thats kewl

ccasady: If you like the result hit Apply.

Now go render your terrain in the main Bryce window and see if you like it.

george: zoom in on that even!

ccasady: If not, hit Command Z while in the main window (not back in the Terrain Editor) and it will Undo!

Calyxa: tell'em about the option-drag thing on that rotatable 3d preview...

KathG: That is great :)

i_claudius: Does that work for architectural models as well?

ccasady: You can start over and re-do the blend again. Amazing.

PJF88: Lise, other room

driven: hey wow thats pretty cool

ccasady: any Terrain

amazingly, you can undo a terrain even after rendering and saving a scene!

i_claudius: Taht I knew

MetaKlaus: ? huch?

ccasady: but don't expect to undo it IN the terrain Editor, it wont rememebr.

MetaKlaus: that sounds like some wasted bytes...

ccasady: Questions?

How do you mean Klause?

DaleP: For PC... Ctrl-Z?

ccasady: yes, standard Un-Do

ctaylor: yea

MetaKlaus: Oh, I just reread and have seen that it was a misunderstanding...

AuntiAlias: interesting... is that why the Bryce 3D and Bryce 4 file sizes get so big when you add a terrain? (th eundo-after-the-fact)

MetaKlaus: They get so big because you add so much data...

ccasady: gee, good question! I'd be surprised if that is so

Calyxa: lots of rice grains

Rosy: LOL

MetaKlaus: 1024 x 1024 x 2 bytes (for 16 bits) are 2 Megs!

driven: yum

ccasady: Why *do* they get so big?

Ah!

MetaKlaus: two animated keyframes of this terrain and you have 6 Mages pure data...

ccasady: So, we are paying for that extra detail in biger file sizes, I see.

MetaKlaus: But the payoff is okay:

ccasady: I will feel better now about my big file sizes : )

MetaKlaus: We only have double filesize for 256 times the details!

Rosy: wow

AuntiAlias: : )

ccasady: Can I talk about painting now?

MetaKlaus: The point where you can save is the patchsize...

driven: ok

MetaKlaus: yep, shure!

driven: ?

ccasady: Driven?

boru: The moral of the story: keep resolution small on terrains when you animate

MetaKlaus: yep!

RabbleRouser: good tip, John

ccasady: you had a question ?

driven: oh just slightly confused on all of this

im primarily new

ccasady: no more querstions? Server slogged?

MetaKlaus: 512 x 512 x 2= 512 K... sounds better, eh?

Rosy: ?

MetaKlaus: Okay chris, talk about terrain painting!

ccasady: Ah Rosy?

i_claudius: Damn, I just lost the log up to now. This will be posted, won't it?

AuntiAlias: yes

Rosy: terrains are hollow right

george: can be....

Luie: Resolution is under grid in the terrain editor right?

MetaKlaus: They don't have to be...

Calyxa: yes

ccasady: they are hollow but can be made solid

Rosy: mine sometimes sit up on the edges!

look funny

ctaylor: how do you make them not hollow?

Morpheus: how late am I?

Rosy: yeah!

ccasady: 40 minutes

Rosy: how DO we make them solid? :-)

Calyxa: there's a menu triangle below where you select the grid size.

ccasady: the 'solid" setting is under the Terrain Canvas in a pop up

Calyxa: solid is an option on that menu

Rosy: ah! thanx

ccasady: Now for some painting tips:

ctaylor: cool, thanks

ccasady: Here's a problem many people can't solve: Terrain Spikes.

How many times have you cursed a Terrain becauise it had one or two pixels that were very bright?

RabbleRouser: ugh!

MetaKlaus: one of the well hidden features... there you also find the smooth option... unsmooth it and you get the crystal stale from B2

Rosy: yeah

driven: ik

i_claudius: many times.

Morpheus: raises virtual hand

MetaKlaus: Morpheus?

Morpheus: what

ccasady: crystal stale???

nacho: its possible to make grass or vegetation using the solid option?

Rosy: huh?

MetaKlaus: style

ccasady: what's that? oh.

i_claudius: where is the option?


 

 

ccasady: anyone ever have nasty Terrain Spikes?

Rosy: yeah

PJF88: Yer late yer git.

ccasady: ...An edge maybe. a Jpeg artifact, maybe the result of over sharpening, too many Sub Contours....there's many way to get unwanted spikes,

i_claudius: yes

Androo...: yep

Jeffric: me

ccasady: ...even with the "Spikes" (trees) tool here creates spikes, mabe too many!.

MetaKlaus: terrain editor is a pretty cool tool to uncover compression artifacts!

ccasady: White pixels make sharp spikes shooting up from your Terrain. Not very realistic.

jonjon: I know. The kids are just in berd. 7.30 is too ** early!

ccasady: There are TWO clever features you may not know about in the Terrain Editor to help you get rid of these.

PJF88: sshhh!

ccasady: Here's how:

You paint in a special "mode" called "Minimum".

jonjon: Congrats on the new job Klaus. Jonathan Allen here.

ccasady: At the bottom of your Terrain Canvas is the dark grey words: Brush Behavior and a pop-up triangle.

AuntiAlias: -- : ) ccasady has the floor, folks! --

i_claudius: Over the spikes?

ccasady: yes, paint the spikes out!

"Brush behavior"

Click there,

i_claudius: Ok. I see.

ccasady: You'll see all the different "Apply Modes" ( Elevation, Paint Effect, Unpaint Effect, Errosian, Minimum, Maximum)

RabbleRouser: at what grey level should you set it at?

for minimum...

ccasady: Ah! god questuion!

MetaKlaus: indeed

Rosy: mine doesn't seem to DO anything!

ccasady: That's part "B"

Calyxa: deus ex machina

ccasady: coming up....

To controil spikes use: "Minimum".

ccasady: . Also you must have just the right value of grey in your paintbrish.

Rosy: ah

keef: ?

ccasady: This method of painting; "minimum", will lower the value of a bright grey but will not raise the level of any greys darker than it is.

Like you can only paint down to that level, never below it, and never does it paint "up". This is the first half of the technique. Try this. Great for making mesas, grading roads, or leveling lots for homes.

jonjon: I wondered wot it did, thanks

ccasady: question keef?

keef: If you are talking about 16 bit resolution how come the Level control in the Terrain Editor is so rought ?

ccasady: ah, ! welll....

nacho: nice tool i use it to reduce the mounds when iuse that tool some nasty mounds appears in the terrain

MetaKlaus: Because it has so few space...

ccasady: because most consumers have 13 inch monitors!

MetaKlaus: We should implement a spline based version...

RabbleRouser: there u go!

ccasady: and we like to sell to consumers!

keef: Ooooh - thanks

driven: YEAH

ccasady: Okay, ..PART B:

george: spline based version of what?

i_claudius: Some of we consumers have 17" monitors

AuntiAlias: pssssh!

yes, Chris.. you were saying... ?

ccasady: for the second half: How do we pick a grey that will paint out those spikes perfectly?

Sky Pilot: Would be nice to be able to save the shades you use to a palette, in TE. Even if only for that scene.

ccasady: you have to get an "altitude.

Get an "altitude" in your "brush".

If you can get an attitude in your stride, you can get an altitude in your brush.

jonjon: search me

RabbleRouser: hehee

ccasady: How do we get just the perfect value of grey that we want?

MetaKlaus: and here comes the magic space button ;-)

ccasady: There is an Eyedropper tool in the Terrain Editor!

yup!

Rosy: where is the little devil

ccasady: Use the Space bar on your keyboard to turn your brush into an eyedropper, sample the lower grey right next to those spikes, and paint those spikes out.

SPACE BAR!

jonjon: AHA!

MetaKlaus: But do not click to sample!

Sky Pilot: That helps!

i_claudius: marvelous!

MetaKlaus: Just release the space bar!

ccasady: it turns you brush into an eyedropper!

driven: wow

MetaKlaus: If you click, you already paint

driven: neat

ctaylor: way too many hidden things

ccasady: then begin painting again

ctaylor: that is neat

ccasady: If the mode is Minimum you'll only paint out the spikes.

Sumo: ?

ccasady: yes Sumo?

Sumo: Is the eye dropper documented?

MetaKlaus: no.

Sumo: any reason?

driven: should be

jonjon: big surprise

GameTYRANT: hi

AuntiAlias: It is now! That's why the BryceTalk logs are posted! : )

GameTYRANT: does any one in here kno any prgrams for the PC that i can actually create my own video game on?

ccasady: That's one reason we have Bryce Talk

GameTYRANT: what?

AuntiAlias: Game, we're in the middle of a discussion that has a topic -- terrains. You're welcome to hang out

GameTYRANT: K

THANX

AuntiAlias: but please.. we have ccasady who has the floor!

GameTYRANT: o

AuntiAlias: so... ssh! : )

ccasady: Can I talk more about painting?

driven: yep

i_claudius: talk!

GameTYRANT: cool

ccasady: Speaking of selective painting....

KathG: please

3dradmd: go ahead'

Sumo: Okay, but the wider issue is that this is why Bryce/Interface has detractors

Sumo: I'll shut up now

ccasady: here's a habit a like to get into...

Use "Un-Do" frequently.

why?

ccasady: .....because!

i_claudius: beacause why?

Rosy: cmon

RabbleRouser: so, why the frequent undo?

ccasady: okay...

Why do I undo frrequently?

Everytime you udo something.... You have the opportunity of painting back in that which you just un-did, but only where you paint it.

Rosy: lol

 

>>>> Next up: More painting, zoom tricks, your own numerical terrain data

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